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	<title>Comments on: The upside of depression</title>
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		<title>By: The Id</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-340</link>
		<dc:creator>The Id</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 21:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-340</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re angry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re angry.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-339</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Mar 2010 20:52:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-339</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the article but it&#039;s LITTERED with spelling errors.  There are 4 in a single sentence alone.

Did you read this before posting, or even care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the article but it&#8217;s LITTERED with spelling errors.  There are 4 in a single sentence alone.</p>
<p>Did you read this before posting, or even care?</p>
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		<title>By: M Peeters</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-137</link>
		<dc:creator>M Peeters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-137</guid>
		<description>Written from a person who obviously never had a depression. I&#039;ve had, and no, there arent&#039;t many good things on depression. 
People kill themselves because of depression. Do you think people do that because a depression let&#039;s make you good decissions? Because depression is, after all, not so bad? People cry for hours, day after day, people are so afraid, they&#039;re sure (!!!) their life will always be like that! They are desperate... 
Also, depression isn&#039;t as highly treatable like you learn in the lessons of psychology. No, CBT isn&#039;t a highly effective treatment! Depression is considered more and more as a chronic disease. Because it comes and it goes... and it comes back! 50-70% of the people who had 2 episodes, wille have a third in the next 2 years. If you had 3 episodes, it&#039;s almost sure you will have another one. And if you know that a depression lasts 6-9 months, you can understand that a a new depression in a period of 2 years isn&#039;t so interesting.
Depression lets you think about things? NO, depression is worrying, over and over again. You don&#039;t think, you turn in circles... that&#039;s not effective, is it? Depressed people don&#039;t find solutions for their problems, their thaughts are highly ineffective... They think in circles. The whole day, even at night, they ruminate about the same topics, day after day. But of course, they don&#039;t need distraction, like the article states... It&#039;s better to think, without distraction, for months, also at night. Because that is highly effective!!!???
Not sleeping so you can think? Did you ever sleep really, really bad for a period of a couple of months? Or let&#039;s say, for 1 week? You were able, after this week, to think well? You were able to find a solution for your problems? Sleeping is essential to be able to function well, to think well. Why is it so important for students to sleep well in the period of their exams, if &#039;not sleeping&#039; is so effective to think and find a solution for your problems? Why not trying to do an exam after a week (or 6 months) of sleeping +/- 4 hours?
Depression is not: &#039;sleeping bad for 1 week&#039;, it is &#039;sleeping bad for months&#039;! So that&#039;s an excellent condition to restore well, isn&#039;t it?

A moderate depression? Forget it! With a bit of &#039;luck&#039; (according to those people), you&#039;ll have a recidivisme. And another one, even if you have/ had CBT!! So that means: another 6-9 months (or longer: a recidivism is more difficult to treat) of pain, of being afraid, crying for hours and being desperate... Have you ever been afraid, really deadly afraid for &#039;nothing&#039;? Nothing, except the conviction (!!) that this is your destiny? Have you ever been so afraid, did you ever cried for hours, day after day, month after month, that it hurts, it really hurts, you really feel physical (!!!) pain? So you&#039;re sure the only thing you can do is killing yourself because you can&#039;t stand it anymore? Because you know (!!) it won&#039;t change anymore? Even if it will change, that&#039;s not how somebody with a depression thinks: he knows it will never go better!
That is depression! So this article is really really bullshit!

So you have to make a distinction between someone with a depression (not being sad!) and someone who is chronically depressed?? That&#039;s humor! About 50% of the people who had 1 episode will have another. 

Depression is the hell on earth! And now, there are people who claim: oh, look, depression isn&#039;t as bad as it looks... 
It makes me sick, because they don&#039;t even know what they are talking about! 

By the way: this is not personally against the writer of this blog! A first look is telling me that you&#039;ve posted some interesting articles. ;o) 
But, it&#039;s shocking to see how some (!) researchers (scientists!) think about depression...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Written from a person who obviously never had a depression. I&#8217;ve had, and no, there arent&#8217;t many good things on depression.<br />
People kill themselves because of depression. Do you think people do that because a depression let&#8217;s make you good decissions? Because depression is, after all, not so bad? People cry for hours, day after day, people are so afraid, they&#8217;re sure (!!!) their life will always be like that! They are desperate&#8230;<br />
Also, depression isn&#8217;t as highly treatable like you learn in the lessons of psychology. No, CBT isn&#8217;t a highly effective treatment! Depression is considered more and more as a chronic disease. Because it comes and it goes&#8230; and it comes back! 50-70% of the people who had 2 episodes, wille have a third in the next 2 years. If you had 3 episodes, it&#8217;s almost sure you will have another one. And if you know that a depression lasts 6-9 months, you can understand that a a new depression in a period of 2 years isn&#8217;t so interesting.<br />
Depression lets you think about things? NO, depression is worrying, over and over again. You don&#8217;t think, you turn in circles&#8230; that&#8217;s not effective, is it? Depressed people don&#8217;t find solutions for their problems, their thaughts are highly ineffective&#8230; They think in circles. The whole day, even at night, they ruminate about the same topics, day after day. But of course, they don&#8217;t need distraction, like the article states&#8230; It&#8217;s better to think, without distraction, for months, also at night. Because that is highly effective!!!???<br />
Not sleeping so you can think? Did you ever sleep really, really bad for a period of a couple of months? Or let&#8217;s say, for 1 week? You were able, after this week, to think well? You were able to find a solution for your problems? Sleeping is essential to be able to function well, to think well. Why is it so important for students to sleep well in the period of their exams, if &#8216;not sleeping&#8217; is so effective to think and find a solution for your problems? Why not trying to do an exam after a week (or 6 months) of sleeping +/- 4 hours?<br />
Depression is not: &#8217;sleeping bad for 1 week&#8217;, it is &#8217;sleeping bad for months&#8217;! So that&#8217;s an excellent condition to restore well, isn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>A moderate depression? Forget it! With a bit of &#8216;luck&#8217; (according to those people), you&#8217;ll have a recidivisme. And another one, even if you have/ had CBT!! So that means: another 6-9 months (or longer: a recidivism is more difficult to treat) of pain, of being afraid, crying for hours and being desperate&#8230; Have you ever been afraid, really deadly afraid for &#8216;nothing&#8217;? Nothing, except the conviction (!!) that this is your destiny? Have you ever been so afraid, did you ever cried for hours, day after day, month after month, that it hurts, it really hurts, you really feel physical (!!!) pain? So you&#8217;re sure the only thing you can do is killing yourself because you can&#8217;t stand it anymore? Because you know (!!) it won&#8217;t change anymore? Even if it will change, that&#8217;s not how somebody with a depression thinks: he knows it will never go better!<br />
That is depression! So this article is really really bullshit!</p>
<p>So you have to make a distinction between someone with a depression (not being sad!) and someone who is chronically depressed?? That&#8217;s humor! About 50% of the people who had 1 episode will have another. </p>
<p>Depression is the hell on earth! And now, there are people who claim: oh, look, depression isn&#8217;t as bad as it looks&#8230;<br />
It makes me sick, because they don&#8217;t even know what they are talking about! </p>
<p>By the way: this is not personally against the writer of this blog! A first look is telling me that you&#8217;ve posted some interesting articles. ;o)<br />
But, it&#8217;s shocking to see how some (!) researchers (scientists!) think about depression&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Yellow Vector</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Yellow Vector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Nov 2009 22:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-127</guid>
		<description>Interesting topic. I wonder if it isn&#039;t more likely that the *threat* of sadness is adaptive (because the motivation of avoiding pain drives pretty much all our achievements), but that the actual experience of depression is pointless. We may well need the gene, and the occasional experience of sadness, to remind us that we&#039;d prefer to feel something more positive, and inspire us to take steps to get there. But if we&#039;re &quot;using&quot; the gene all the time, it means something has gone wrong; the mechanism has been hijacked or disrupted by something that was not present in the environment in which it originally evolved. Just like drugs can hijack the dopamine reward system, or a diet of calorie-dense food can disrupt the body&#039;s insulin balance.   

That&#039;s not to say we are ill unless we are completely happy. But we are probably ill if we give up the striving to be happy. It is the striving that sustains us, even though the goal is unattainable. And to preserve the striving, we can&#039;t afford to admit to ourselves the impossibility of the goal. We must keep insisting that lasting happiness is just around the next corner, and keep feeling puzzled and frustrated when it eludes us again. This is why &quot;I Can&#039;t Get No Satisfaction&quot; is the most profound statement ever made about the human condition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting topic. I wonder if it isn&#8217;t more likely that the *threat* of sadness is adaptive (because the motivation of avoiding pain drives pretty much all our achievements), but that the actual experience of depression is pointless. We may well need the gene, and the occasional experience of sadness, to remind us that we&#8217;d prefer to feel something more positive, and inspire us to take steps to get there. But if we&#8217;re &#8220;using&#8221; the gene all the time, it means something has gone wrong; the mechanism has been hijacked or disrupted by something that was not present in the environment in which it originally evolved. Just like drugs can hijack the dopamine reward system, or a diet of calorie-dense food can disrupt the body&#8217;s insulin balance.   </p>
<p>That&#8217;s not to say we are ill unless we are completely happy. But we are probably ill if we give up the striving to be happy. It is the striving that sustains us, even though the goal is unattainable. And to preserve the striving, we can&#8217;t afford to admit to ourselves the impossibility of the goal. We must keep insisting that lasting happiness is just around the next corner, and keep feeling puzzled and frustrated when it eludes us again. This is why &#8220;I Can&#8217;t Get No Satisfaction&#8221; is the most profound statement ever made about the human condition.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2009-10-29 &#171; Fantasising Zombies</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-125</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2009-10-29 &#171; Fantasising Zombies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Oct 2009 01:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-125</guid>
		<description>[...] The Psych Student » Blog Archive » The upside of depression The argument for depression- it should not be so abhorrent as it is now- [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Psych Student » Blog Archive » The upside of depression The argument for depression- it should not be so abhorrent as it is now- [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Placebo hype: Do the facts match the headlines? [Cognitive Daily] &#187; iThinkEducation.net!</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Placebo hype: Do the facts match the headlines? [Cognitive Daily] &#187; iThinkEducation.net!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:50:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-123</guid>
		<description>[...] The upside of depression. Obviously severe depression is bad. But The Psych Student explores how a little depression could actually be a good thing. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The upside of depression. Obviously severe depression is bad. But The Psych Student explores how a little depression could actually be a good thing. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Rat</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-122</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 13:54:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-122</guid>
		<description>&quot;last night’s Race &amp; Intelligence programme&quot; I saw that! I thought they handled things very well considering; looking at race, class, society and a whole variety of factors. I did almost throw something at the screen when the guy started rambling on about pelvis sizes though.

And now for my anecdotal evidence :) Thankfully I&#039;ve never had to cope with it myself but my significant other went through several months of severe depression last year, brought on by a variety of factors. And although it may have indeed helped focus his attention during his finals, it also meant I was watching someone I loved just diminishing in front of me, entering a state where they simple could not cope with anything. And when he actually went to get medical care, he didn&#039;t dare tell anyone, afraid of the stigma of the whole issue.

But I do agree with your point that there is a lot more to life than just being &#039;happy&#039;, and a lot that you can get out of emotions usually seen as &#039;negative&#039;. In the same way when people try to cheer me up by saying &#039;don&#039;t be sad!&#039; it tends to irritate me. I *am* sad, there is usually a good *reason* for me to be sad, and all I want is for you to maybe sit with me until the sad goes away, not tell me I shouldn&#039;t be feeling it.

People do have the right to be sad, miserable, or even a little depressed. It&#039;s when they get to the stage where they can&#039;t *cope* with that, I think that no benefit should be worth it, and it&#039;s probably worth seeking medical advice.

And congrats on the editor&#039;s choice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;last night’s Race &amp; Intelligence programme&#8221; I saw that! I thought they handled things very well considering; looking at race, class, society and a whole variety of factors. I did almost throw something at the screen when the guy started rambling on about pelvis sizes though.</p>
<p>And now for my anecdotal evidence <img src='http://psych.drew3000.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Thankfully I&#8217;ve never had to cope with it myself but my significant other went through several months of severe depression last year, brought on by a variety of factors. And although it may have indeed helped focus his attention during his finals, it also meant I was watching someone I loved just diminishing in front of me, entering a state where they simple could not cope with anything. And when he actually went to get medical care, he didn&#8217;t dare tell anyone, afraid of the stigma of the whole issue.</p>
<p>But I do agree with your point that there is a lot more to life than just being &#8216;happy&#8217;, and a lot that you can get out of emotions usually seen as &#8216;negative&#8217;. In the same way when people try to cheer me up by saying &#8216;don&#8217;t be sad!&#8217; it tends to irritate me. I *am* sad, there is usually a good *reason* for me to be sad, and all I want is for you to maybe sit with me until the sad goes away, not tell me I shouldn&#8217;t be feeling it.</p>
<p>People do have the right to be sad, miserable, or even a little depressed. It&#8217;s when they get to the stage where they can&#8217;t *cope* with that, I think that no benefit should be worth it, and it&#8217;s probably worth seeking medical advice.</p>
<p>And congrats on the editor&#8217;s choice!</p>
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		<title>By: ResearchBlogging.org News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Editor&#8217;s selections: All About Depression</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>ResearchBlogging.org News &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Editor&#8217;s selections: All About Depression</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:14:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-121</guid>
		<description>[...] The upside of depression. Obviously severe depression is bad. But The Psych Student explores how a little depression could actually be a good thing. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The upside of depression. Obviously severe depression is bad. But The Psych Student explores how a little depression could actually be a good thing. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Id</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>The Id</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:48:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Very good points, Lab Rat. As has been said elsewhere, and reiterated in last night’s Race &amp; Intelligence programme on Channel 4, brain size is often a red herring argument, and has no real impact, especially when you take in the perhaps countless other factors that impact mental and physical development. It is here that psychology must also turn to geneticists and biologists to complete the picture (and vice versa).

If we look at it from a &quot;the mind is what the brain does&quot; aspect, we can see that multiple species are capable of producing the symptoms of depression. And I think arguments of ignoring the issue just because it may be (emphasis on the &#039;may&#039;) an evolutionary advantageous trait (which is not to be confused with individually advantageous) are a bit off.

Even one-off or rare episodes of depression should be addressed. I don&#039;t think the researchers&#039; point was to say &quot;ignore depression, it&#039;s natural.&quot; But rather, &quot;let&#039;s look at it in a different light in view of these findings.&quot; As a person who has had the rare occasion of depression (as defined by the dictionary quote offered in my comment above) I found a lot of what they had to say spot on. Perhaps this is anecdotal at best, but it was followed by some extreme changes (positive ones, I think) in how I looked at my roles, identity and what I wanted to accomplish.

Acute or chronic depression needs some form of addressing, as we can see the debilitating effects it has. Episodic depression generally has a tapering off period. Lots of people get depressed but I think because of how we talk about it in society, it&#039;s seen in the realm that really should be reserved for the most extreme cases.

This is where elements of positive psychology come into play, but there are other takes on that that I think deserve some caution as it’s looked at by some as a way of doing away with large swaths of human emotion seen as &quot;negative.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good points, Lab Rat. As has been said elsewhere, and reiterated in last night’s Race &amp; Intelligence programme on Channel 4, brain size is often a red herring argument, and has no real impact, especially when you take in the perhaps countless other factors that impact mental and physical development. It is here that psychology must also turn to geneticists and biologists to complete the picture (and vice versa).</p>
<p>If we look at it from a &#8220;the mind is what the brain does&#8221; aspect, we can see that multiple species are capable of producing the symptoms of depression. And I think arguments of ignoring the issue just because it may be (emphasis on the &#8216;may&#8217;) an evolutionary advantageous trait (which is not to be confused with individually advantageous) are a bit off.</p>
<p>Even one-off or rare episodes of depression should be addressed. I don&#8217;t think the researchers&#8217; point was to say &#8220;ignore depression, it&#8217;s natural.&#8221; But rather, &#8220;let&#8217;s look at it in a different light in view of these findings.&#8221; As a person who has had the rare occasion of depression (as defined by the dictionary quote offered in my comment above) I found a lot of what they had to say spot on. Perhaps this is anecdotal at best, but it was followed by some extreme changes (positive ones, I think) in how I looked at my roles, identity and what I wanted to accomplish.</p>
<p>Acute or chronic depression needs some form of addressing, as we can see the debilitating effects it has. Episodic depression generally has a tapering off period. Lots of people get depressed but I think because of how we talk about it in society, it&#8217;s seen in the realm that really should be reserved for the most extreme cases.</p>
<p>This is where elements of positive psychology come into play, but there are other takes on that that I think deserve some caution as it’s looked at by some as a way of doing away with large swaths of human emotion seen as &#8220;negative.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Lab Rat</title>
		<link>http://psych.drew3000.net/the-upside-of-depression/comment-page-1/#comment-119</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Rat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://psych.drew3000.net/?p=252#comment-119</guid>
		<description>Your dictionary defination gave me a better idea of where your coming from, depression as a disorder spans such a wide range of symptoms and presentations it sometimes baffles me why they all get put under the same label. And in doesn&#039;t help in that it can lead to an attidude of &quot;you don&#039;t need pills and stuff, just stop being so miserable&quot; towards people with chronic depression, or acute depression which they can&#039;t cope with, which is unhelpful for everyone concerned.

I too am a little wary of studies that talk about brain size. Even mice get depressed, as most people who&#039;ve worked with them will tell you. Interestingly Desmond Morris in &#039;The naked ape&#039; books pointed out that the emotional states seen by humans is mimiced most closely by zoo animals, rather than big-brained animals, suggesting this is an issue as much about situation than anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your dictionary defination gave me a better idea of where your coming from, depression as a disorder spans such a wide range of symptoms and presentations it sometimes baffles me why they all get put under the same label. And in doesn&#8217;t help in that it can lead to an attidude of &#8220;you don&#8217;t need pills and stuff, just stop being so miserable&#8221; towards people with chronic depression, or acute depression which they can&#8217;t cope with, which is unhelpful for everyone concerned.</p>
<p>I too am a little wary of studies that talk about brain size. Even mice get depressed, as most people who&#8217;ve worked with them will tell you. Interestingly Desmond Morris in &#8216;The naked ape&#8217; books pointed out that the emotional states seen by humans is mimiced most closely by zoo animals, rather than big-brained animals, suggesting this is an issue as much about situation than anything.</p>
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